As we cycle Progressive Sparring and Isolation Sparring at the end of 2024 into 2025 this is a good time to post new notes based on what we go over in Class
We are using a new method for new starters in Phase One where we take them through the Progessive Phases up to full free sparring
For established Members this will be cycling, revision, and the addition of more depth
The thread started in 2011 added to in 2022
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/612/isolation-sparring
--------------------------------
The Progression will be on these 16 stages
1. lead jab only
2. lead hand only
3. lead hand and kick only
4. lead hand and kick v boxing
5. lead hand and kick v kickboxing
6. lead hand and kick v kicks only
7. jab v cross
8. boxing both
9. boxing v kicks
10. boxing v box and lead kick
11. boxing v kickboxing
12. boxing v lead kick
13. boxing and lead kick both
14. boxing and lead kick v kicks
15. boxing and lead kick v kickboxing
16. kickboxing both
1. lead jab only
2. lead hand only
3. lead hand and kick only
4. lead hand and kick v boxing
5. lead hand and kick v kickboxing
6. lead hand and kick v kicks only
7. jab v cross
8. boxing both
9. boxing v kicks
10. boxing v box and lead kick
11. boxing v kickboxing
12. boxing v lead kick
13. boxing and lead kick both
14. boxing and lead kick v kicks
15. boxing and lead kick v kickboxing
16. kickboxing both
-------------------------------
On the 21 list the next phases are these
add knees and elbows
add takedowns and throws
add grappling
kickboxing v grappling
boxing v grappling
we cover these in Class anyway and cover the progessions, we just don't use them in KB Class sparring
If we take the Boxing start approach and Boxer learns to kick and adds those to create Kickboxing that way
Kicks start as being to the body, high kicks come later as the fighter develops dexterity in them
If we take the Karate start approach, the Karateka starts with Dojo sparring into contest points fighting
In the Kyukushin approach, leg kicks are allowed, knees are used in competition not sparring
In the Seidokan we create Full Contact Karate by putting on gloves, headgear and mouthpieces to allow the head punches and try for a KO
Thai adds the elbows
Lethwei adds the headbutts
Cage adds the Grappling
add knees and elbows
add takedowns and throws
add grappling
kickboxing v grappling
boxing v grappling
we cover these in Class anyway and cover the progessions, we just don't use them in KB Class sparring
If we take the Boxing start approach and Boxer learns to kick and adds those to create Kickboxing that way
Kicks start as being to the body, high kicks come later as the fighter develops dexterity in them
If we take the Karate start approach, the Karateka starts with Dojo sparring into contest points fighting
In the Kyukushin approach, leg kicks are allowed, knees are used in competition not sparring
In the Seidokan we create Full Contact Karate by putting on gloves, headgear and mouthpieces to allow the head punches and try for a KO
Thai adds the elbows
Lethwei adds the headbutts
Cage adds the Grappling
--------------------------
The four primary punches in Boxing are
Jab
Cross
Hook
Uppercut
developed on the focus pads and primarily used on the head for a KO
Body blows are secondary, used to support and set up a KO, they rarely finish a fight
Secondary punches include
overhand
body "uppercut" the "shovel hook"
The four primary kicks in Karate are
Front - my geri
Side - yoko geri
Rear - ushiro geri
Round - mawashi geri
these are done to the body and developed on the shield
Head kicks are developed on the focus pads
Leg kicks are best developed on the long low bag, the Thai bag, the low use of the shield works
Secondary kicks in Karate
the hook kick - spin, lead, rear - mainly to the head, though spinning low leg version exists
mikazuki - crescent kick moving in - leg, body and head
outer crescent sokuto - used mainly to the head - includes a spinning version
RANGE:
Savate - Karate - Thai - Boxing are the four Arts we source and each has a range
The Savate kick is done with the cap of the boot - the Thai kick with the shin
with Karate, Shotokan is a longer range like Savate while Kyukushin is closer like Thai and uses the shin and the knee in similar way
The main kick in each Art
Savate - the Chasse side thrust kick
- equates to Karate Yoko Geri Kekome
- the fouette round kick is secondary to the chasse
Thai - the Dte round kick
- equates to Karate mawashi geri
- the tiip push kick is secondary to the Dte and used to set the Dte and knees up
Karate - the mygeri front kick
- the first kick learnt and perfected for sparring and fighting
- some styles would favor the round kick in combination, though mygeri is Karate's main and first kick
Kickboxing - the spin back kick
- easy to use once developed from the FC KB stance and hard to counter when done right in combination
- equates to Karate Ushiro Geri
SAVATE fouette round kick is like a whip, a ball on a chain, fast slicing and precise like a Kali stick or sword
THAI dte round kick is like a machete hacking, a bar or baseball bat
Karate Yoko Geri side kick has two versions - KEKOME thrust and KEAGE snap
The Snap and Thrust versions apply to Mygeri
Though they don't literally apply to Mawashi geri, a Thai kick would be a "thrust" and a Savate kick would be a "snap"
Savate uses the Chasse side kick and is side on at full range like SC Karate
This then makes a set with the fouette round kick and revers hook kick
In the FC Boxing stance, at hand range Savate is much the same as "Boxe Anglaise" the "English Boxing"
The punching range is a bit longer, more like Karate
- long looping lead hooks
- the "swing" and rear hook like a mawashiken
In FC stance the three kicks
chasse frontal - front kick
revers frontal - crescent kick
foutte
With Karate, at hand range, we add the Uraken backfist
front hand
rear hand
spinning
and the haito ridge hand
With Sparring we have four stances
Both left forward Orthadox
Opponent right forward Southpaw
Both right forward
Uke left forward
so sparring applications are done from all four leads
Jab
Cross
Hook
Uppercut
developed on the focus pads and primarily used on the head for a KO
Body blows are secondary, used to support and set up a KO, they rarely finish a fight
Secondary punches include
overhand
body "uppercut" the "shovel hook"
The four primary kicks in Karate are
Front - my geri
Side - yoko geri
Rear - ushiro geri
Round - mawashi geri
these are done to the body and developed on the shield
Head kicks are developed on the focus pads
Leg kicks are best developed on the long low bag, the Thai bag, the low use of the shield works
Secondary kicks in Karate
the hook kick - spin, lead, rear - mainly to the head, though spinning low leg version exists
mikazuki - crescent kick moving in - leg, body and head
outer crescent sokuto - used mainly to the head - includes a spinning version
RANGE:
Savate - Karate - Thai - Boxing are the four Arts we source and each has a range
The Savate kick is done with the cap of the boot - the Thai kick with the shin
with Karate, Shotokan is a longer range like Savate while Kyukushin is closer like Thai and uses the shin and the knee in similar way
The main kick in each Art
Savate - the Chasse side thrust kick
- equates to Karate Yoko Geri Kekome
- the fouette round kick is secondary to the chasse
Thai - the Dte round kick
- equates to Karate mawashi geri
- the tiip push kick is secondary to the Dte and used to set the Dte and knees up
Karate - the mygeri front kick
- the first kick learnt and perfected for sparring and fighting
- some styles would favor the round kick in combination, though mygeri is Karate's main and first kick
Kickboxing - the spin back kick
- easy to use once developed from the FC KB stance and hard to counter when done right in combination
- equates to Karate Ushiro Geri
SAVATE fouette round kick is like a whip, a ball on a chain, fast slicing and precise like a Kali stick or sword
THAI dte round kick is like a machete hacking, a bar or baseball bat
Karate Yoko Geri side kick has two versions - KEKOME thrust and KEAGE snap
The Snap and Thrust versions apply to Mygeri
Though they don't literally apply to Mawashi geri, a Thai kick would be a "thrust" and a Savate kick would be a "snap"
Savate uses the Chasse side kick and is side on at full range like SC Karate
This then makes a set with the fouette round kick and revers hook kick
In the FC Boxing stance, at hand range Savate is much the same as "Boxe Anglaise" the "English Boxing"
The punching range is a bit longer, more like Karate
- long looping lead hooks
- the "swing" and rear hook like a mawashiken
In FC stance the three kicks
chasse frontal - front kick
revers frontal - crescent kick
foutte
With Karate, at hand range, we add the Uraken backfist
front hand
rear hand
spinning
and the haito ridge hand
With Sparring we have four stances
Both left forward Orthadox
Opponent right forward Southpaw
Both right forward
Uke left forward
so sparring applications are done from all four leads
-------------------------------
LEAD JAB ONLY
Jab to head
Jab to body
Double Jab to head
Hi Low
Low Hi
Defence
Slip - in, out, duck, snap back
Parry, catch
Loop drill - jab and catch
Jab is the "feeler" - the basis of all other blows
Ali - hitting a fly with a swatter
Offence - keep opponent off balance, paves way for more severe punching
Defence - stops or meets the attack
Finger jab - Western sword fencing without the sword - target opp eyes
LEAD HAND ONLY
Jab
Low jab
Long hook
Close hook
Body hook
Uppercut
Body shovel uppercut
Backfist
J, J
LJ, H
J, H
J, ura
LJ, ura
LH, H
LH, U
HOOK
Most effective when going in and coming out
When opp lowers his rear guard or after he jabs
can be used as a lead
more effective as a followup or counter blow
fake cross then hook
in close, goes round guard
feint to head, land low hook
long hook - follows jab
short hook - from Position
Block - move IN not OUT
The inside slip and parry - low body hook - a jarring, sickening blow used to slow up the opp
Shovel hook - as in Set 5
Cockscrew hook - lead version of OH
Uppercut - close range
The lead arm
shoulder loose and hand held lower - relaxed, ready for attacking
entire arm and shoulder loose and relaxed
snap and whip out the lead in rapier like thrusts
hand position changes - low back fist, shoulder height, far to the outside as possible without raising the elbow
lead hand always in some subtle motion for easier initiation
low line position - no extended hand
most people are weak in low line defence
most preparations on the lead hand are useless
head is a moving target
keep the potential of your lead reach a secret
Leading with the forward hand, guarding with the rear hand, moving to the side - negates any normal opening created by the straight jab
Jab to head
Jab to body
Double Jab to head
Hi Low
Low Hi
Defence
Slip - in, out, duck, snap back
Parry, catch
Loop drill - jab and catch
Jab is the "feeler" - the basis of all other blows
Ali - hitting a fly with a swatter
Offence - keep opponent off balance, paves way for more severe punching
Defence - stops or meets the attack
Finger jab - Western sword fencing without the sword - target opp eyes
LEAD HAND ONLY
Jab
Low jab
Long hook
Close hook
Body hook
Uppercut
Body shovel uppercut
Backfist
J, J
LJ, H
J, H
J, ura
LJ, ura
LH, H
LH, U
HOOK
Most effective when going in and coming out
When opp lowers his rear guard or after he jabs
can be used as a lead
more effective as a followup or counter blow
fake cross then hook
in close, goes round guard
feint to head, land low hook
long hook - follows jab
short hook - from Position
Block - move IN not OUT
The inside slip and parry - low body hook - a jarring, sickening blow used to slow up the opp
Shovel hook - as in Set 5
Cockscrew hook - lead version of OH
Uppercut - close range
The lead arm
shoulder loose and hand held lower - relaxed, ready for attacking
entire arm and shoulder loose and relaxed
snap and whip out the lead in rapier like thrusts
hand position changes - low back fist, shoulder height, far to the outside as possible without raising the elbow
lead hand always in some subtle motion for easier initiation
low line position - no extended hand
most people are weak in low line defence
most preparations on the lead hand are useless
head is a moving target
keep the potential of your lead reach a secret
Leading with the forward hand, guarding with the rear hand, moving to the side - negates any normal opening created by the straight jab
-------------------------------------
The Bai Jong - On Guard Kamae/Position
what Bruce called the Small Phasic Bent Knee Stance
most favourable to the mechanical execution of all the total techniques and skills
complete relaxation - at the same time gives muscle tonus most favourable to quick reaction time
springiness and alertness of footwork
rear heel raised and cocked, ready to pull the trigger and explode into action
never set or tensed - ready and flexible
head evasive moves and changes of level
slightly raised lead shoulder and slightly dropped chin
left elbow protects the centre, ribs, left side of body
right forearm protects centre of the body - right elbow protects right side of body
right hand protects right side of face - major blocking defence tool
left hand protects left side of face and groin - major striking tool
left knee turn slightly inward for groin protection
left boot turned slightly in - major kicking weapon
right heel coiled like a spring - raised for greater mobility
Most mechanically favourable for the next move
A "poker body" - reveals no intentions
Favourable tension, degree of tonus - quick reaction, high coordination
Maximum degree of relaxation - smoothness of movement at all times
The Head is treated as if it is part of the trunk
the shoulder is raised and the chin is dropped
only the top of the head is presented to the opponent - impossible to be hit on the point of the chin
semi crouch stance for fighting
braced - all times in a comfortably balanced position - attack, counter, defend with no preliminary movement
Small - appropriateness, no over extended steps, no insufficient length of stepping - small quick steps - speed and controlled balance in bridging the gap - not distinctive enough for opponent to time
Phasic - not still or static - constantly changing
Bent Knee - readiness in motion at all times
Readiness in sports - bent knees, crouched trunk, slightly forward centre of gravity, partially flexed arm
Springiness and alertness of footwork
Kicking, hitting, applying bodily force
Shift weight from one leg to the other
Balance
back, elbows, forearms, fist and forehead - opponent hasn't much to shoot at
Use tools that deviate least from the Position
Instantaneous explosion from neutrality - retain neutrality in commitment
Apply all tools from the Position and return to Position with all possible rapidity
Kicking and striking - speed and power - singly and combination
what Bruce called the Small Phasic Bent Knee Stance
most favourable to the mechanical execution of all the total techniques and skills
complete relaxation - at the same time gives muscle tonus most favourable to quick reaction time
springiness and alertness of footwork
rear heel raised and cocked, ready to pull the trigger and explode into action
never set or tensed - ready and flexible
head evasive moves and changes of level
slightly raised lead shoulder and slightly dropped chin
left elbow protects the centre, ribs, left side of body
right forearm protects centre of the body - right elbow protects right side of body
right hand protects right side of face - major blocking defence tool
left hand protects left side of face and groin - major striking tool
left knee turn slightly inward for groin protection
left boot turned slightly in - major kicking weapon
right heel coiled like a spring - raised for greater mobility
Most mechanically favourable for the next move
A "poker body" - reveals no intentions
Favourable tension, degree of tonus - quick reaction, high coordination
Maximum degree of relaxation - smoothness of movement at all times
The Head is treated as if it is part of the trunk
the shoulder is raised and the chin is dropped
only the top of the head is presented to the opponent - impossible to be hit on the point of the chin
semi crouch stance for fighting
braced - all times in a comfortably balanced position - attack, counter, defend with no preliminary movement
Small - appropriateness, no over extended steps, no insufficient length of stepping - small quick steps - speed and controlled balance in bridging the gap - not distinctive enough for opponent to time
Phasic - not still or static - constantly changing
Bent Knee - readiness in motion at all times
Readiness in sports - bent knees, crouched trunk, slightly forward centre of gravity, partially flexed arm
Springiness and alertness of footwork
Kicking, hitting, applying bodily force
Shift weight from one leg to the other
Balance
back, elbows, forearms, fist and forehead - opponent hasn't much to shoot at
Use tools that deviate least from the Position
Instantaneous explosion from neutrality - retain neutrality in commitment
Apply all tools from the Position and return to Position with all possible rapidity
Kicking and striking - speed and power - singly and combination
----------------------------------
As we cycle Progressive Sparring and Isolation Sparring at the end of 2024 into 2025 this is a good time to post new notes based on what we go over in Class
We are using a new method for new starters in Phase One where we take them through the Progessive Phases up to full free sparring
For established Members this will be cycling, revision, and the addition of more depth
The new thread for this
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/2027/progressive-sparring-stma
The thread started in 2011 added to in 2022
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/612/isolation-sparring
The Progression will be on these 16 stages
1. lead jab only
2. lead hand only
3. lead hand and kick only
4. lead hand and kick v boxing
5. lead hand and kick v kickboxing
6. lead hand and kick v kicks only
7. jab v cross
8. boxing both
9. boxing v kicks
10. boxing v box and lead kick
11. boxing v kickboxing
12. boxing v lead kick
13. boxing and lead kick both
14. boxing and lead kick v kicks
15. boxing and lead kick v kickboxing
16. kickboxing both
We are using a new method for new starters in Phase One where we take them through the Progessive Phases up to full free sparring
For established Members this will be cycling, revision, and the addition of more depth
The new thread for this
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/2027/progressive-sparring-stma
The thread started in 2011 added to in 2022
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/612/isolation-sparring
The Progression will be on these 16 stages
1. lead jab only
2. lead hand only
3. lead hand and kick only
4. lead hand and kick v boxing
5. lead hand and kick v kickboxing
6. lead hand and kick v kicks only
7. jab v cross
8. boxing both
9. boxing v kicks
10. boxing v box and lead kick
11. boxing v kickboxing
12. boxing v lead kick
13. boxing and lead kick both
14. boxing and lead kick v kicks
15. boxing and lead kick v kickboxing
16. kickboxing both
-----------------------------
LEAD HAND AND KICK ONLY
Savate - English - target - Japanese
Bas - low - leg - gedan
Median - mid - body - chudan
Figure - high - head - jodan
In a side stance/Bai Jong/SC KB Karate
Side kick - kekome - chasse
Round kick - mawashigeri - fouette
Hook kick - ura mawshi - revers
these match to the punches straight, hook and backfist
Fouette is done to all 3 heights
Chasse is done to bas and median
Revers is done to figure
Spin revers can be done to bas
if facing foward in FC stance
Front kick - mygeri - chas frontal
Mikazuki - crescent kick
Revers frontal
Savate - English - target - Japanese
Bas - low - leg - gedan
Median - mid - body - chudan
Figure - high - head - jodan
In a side stance/Bai Jong/SC KB Karate
Side kick - kekome - chasse
Round kick - mawashigeri - fouette
Hook kick - ura mawshi - revers
these match to the punches straight, hook and backfist
Fouette is done to all 3 heights
Chasse is done to bas and median
Revers is done to figure
Spin revers can be done to bas
if facing foward in FC stance
Front kick - mygeri - chas frontal
Mikazuki - crescent kick
Revers frontal
----------------------------------
Once members have perfected the LHK, the Lead Hand and Kick phase we move onto the next three phases
lead hand and kick v boxing
lead hand and kick v kickboxing
lead hand and kick v kicks only
the important part here is to use the LHK against the three variables
your Uke will take the parts for your benefit
Boxer - hands only
Kickboxer - full KB structure
Kicks Only
if you want to take this to the next level you can visit external clubs for Sparring or even enter a competition
spar against a Boxer and a Kickboxer after agreeing to this format
spar against a kick specialist eg a TSD black belt, again after agreeing to the format
This has been done in previous STMA formats, towards the end of the 1990s, and the agreed format benefitted the friends we sparred against
Keep in mind this - a lot of Clubs that claim to show how to use their style "against" whoever have never really tried it AGAINST anyone
eg a Wing Chun club who have a session showing "how to use WC against a boxer/kickboxer" or then "how to use WC against a grappler" - the so called "Sifu" has never sparred with a real boxer, KB, Judoka, Jujutsu, or wrestler, what he does is have one of his own students, who has no training in these styles let alone black belt or competition level, come at him with passive "attacks" so he can show his fantasy "counters"
you don't see WC "fighters" enter events such as UFC, or even the "MMA" and Cage events, and using their "Wing Chun System" to beat kickbox, karate and thai based strikers or grapplers from Judo, JJ or wrestling
So when you do an Isolation, in this case the LHK, we need to know the Uke is doing proper Boxing, Kickboxing and Kick Only - which we definitely do at STMA as we have the background, training, expertise, and experience
lead hand and kick v boxing
lead hand and kick v kickboxing
lead hand and kick v kicks only
the important part here is to use the LHK against the three variables
your Uke will take the parts for your benefit
Boxer - hands only
Kickboxer - full KB structure
Kicks Only
if you want to take this to the next level you can visit external clubs for Sparring or even enter a competition
spar against a Boxer and a Kickboxer after agreeing to this format
spar against a kick specialist eg a TSD black belt, again after agreeing to the format
This has been done in previous STMA formats, towards the end of the 1990s, and the agreed format benefitted the friends we sparred against
Keep in mind this - a lot of Clubs that claim to show how to use their style "against" whoever have never really tried it AGAINST anyone
eg a Wing Chun club who have a session showing "how to use WC against a boxer/kickboxer" or then "how to use WC against a grappler" - the so called "Sifu" has never sparred with a real boxer, KB, Judoka, Jujutsu, or wrestler, what he does is have one of his own students, who has no training in these styles let alone black belt or competition level, come at him with passive "attacks" so he can show his fantasy "counters"
you don't see WC "fighters" enter events such as UFC, or even the "MMA" and Cage events, and using their "Wing Chun System" to beat kickbox, karate and thai based strikers or grapplers from Judo, JJ or wrestling
So when you do an Isolation, in this case the LHK, we need to know the Uke is doing proper Boxing, Kickboxing and Kick Only - which we definitely do at STMA as we have the background, training, expertise, and experience
