White Tiger Martial Arts Croydon

When the UFC was being set up for International events, in the early Millenium, 2001 or so onwards,

the Nevada State Athletic Commission, introduced safety measures, the foul play rules,

a list of techniques which are absolutely forbidden:

· Butting with the Head

· Eye gouging of any kind

· Biting

· Hair pulling

· Fish hooking

· Groin attacks of any kind

· Small joint manipulation eg fingers

· Striking to the spine or the back of the head

· Striking downward using the point of the elbow

· Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea

· Clawing, twisting or pinching the flesh

· Grabbing the collar bone

· Kicking the head of a grounded opponent

· Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent

· Stomping a grounded opponent

· Kicking to the kidney with the heel

· Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck

· Throwing an opponent out off the ring or fenced area

· Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.

so as we can see, the most dangerous and applicable parts of REAL Martial Arts Unarmed Combat were removed and banned early on

As late as UFC 5 we were hearing that certain things such as eye gouging and biting were "frowned upon but not banned, nothing is"

You can see elsewhere, in the Off Topic, our analysis as we watched the progression of the 90s UFCs from the videos

It was moving a long way from the original "VALE TUDO" meaning "Anything Goes" format

The first and second UFC "The rules are there are no rules" was a distant memory

The first UK held UFC was in 2002 - UFC 38 AKA 'The Brawl at the Royal Albert Hall'

Saturday night 13th July 2002

The term "MMA" had still not been coined

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So if we look at the list we can see why these moves were banned, due to the injury they can cause an opponent

So in a REAL fight these are some of the best moves to be using - for those reasons

Butting with the Head - part of our regular drilling - the only strike not allowed in Muay Thai, but of course in Lethwei

Eye gouging and Biting - two of the best tools to have in grappling, both stand up and ground - part of our CRA

Groin attacks - major target

Small joint manipulation eg fingers - presumably also wrists - maybe ankle locks ended up banned - and part of regular drills

Striking to the spine or the back of the head - Thundering Hammers, as well as many other Gata

Striking downward using the point of the elbow - finishing move in several Gata - also an original Thai finisher

Kicking to the kidney with the heel - as in JJ Newaza Atemi - used by Royce in early UFC

Throat strikes of any kind, including, grabbing the trachea - a regular technique - end of Five Swords - grabbing trachea is in a few Gata

Clawing, twisting or pinching the flesh - ITEMI pain techniques - the first Headlock defence inside the thigh has this

Kicking the head of a grounded opponent - Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent - Stomping a grounded opponent - KEMPO finishes after a TD

Throwing an opponent out off the ring or fenced area - in a contest the opponent can be thrown onto ring surface or the the soft mat - you are not allowed to throw them out of the ring onto the hard floor
- which tells you everything about the potential injury caused by throwing an attacker on to the hard floor of the bar or street

Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck - double leg TD is OK - the "spike" that American footballers and rugby players do transferred to a cage match is banned
- which again highlights the point that a Rugby player is tougher than an MMA "fighter"
- and that Rugby is still closer to Unarmed Combat than MMA, a centuries after the British Army started using it for Unarmed soldier training

Hair pulling - still a viable Street technique - Royce v Kimo UFC 3

Fish hooking - banned very early due to the injuries - a great control method, still viable

Grabbing the collar bone - it is a painful Kyusho though not an obvious Combat method, even in close quarter,
- though you can see how it would be easy to dislocate it this way, and it was probably banned because this happened

Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent - presumably this happened somewhere, one man putting his finger into another man's orifice and him complaining to the Ref
(- sounds like a Krav Maga "method" that they probably practice on each other in their "class" )
- not sure what orifice this would apply to in a cage match, as the fish hooking mouth and eye gouging have been covered, unless it was to cover earhole attacks
- the not fingering a cut does make sense, though how big does the cut have to be before the fight was stopped (?)
- this most likely was them just covering every eventuality and not based on anything that happened
- not really a method on any REAL MA system

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Apart from Groin kicking, done at KB range, these pretty much all apply to Trapping, VG and Ground

If you go through the list and visualise Training at each Range, and then how that applies to a REAL fight

"we covered that in Training"

and

"How would I use this if I were ..."

Trapping, Hubud, Chi Sao

Standing Grapple, Gi grabbing

Ground - Mount, Guard, Side Mount, Scarf Hold, Take the Back

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New thread and post on the UFC Rules set up about 2002

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1942/original-ufc-rules-why-sport

Mainly posted because I found these listed in my old notes, and it is interesting to see how much became actually banned as "MMA" events became formed, why REAL Unarmed is so deadly when it leaves in and drills these moves - as we do regularly and will continue to do so

I always have said about look at Combat Sports to see what is banned and why, then make sure we use that

Boxing - bans kidney punches and rabbit punches - you can punch a man in the face for 3 minutes, but you can't hit the back of his head - you can punch him in the stomach for 3 minutes, but you can't hit his kidneys

Muay Thai - you can elbow a man in the face but you can't headbutt him

Direct Groin kicks and strikes - every striking event has this banned, and all competitors wear groin protection as regularly as they do mouth guards
- look at Female Kb and Cage on You Tube and see it "hurts girls too", which a lot of people, even in Karate never knew or acknowledged for a long time

Grappling, and events that have it - biting and eye gouging were banned early - if a man takes me to the ground in a street fight I am going to thumb his eyes and bite his nose or earlobe, maybe his cheek

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We have listed the Newaza on their own threads:

Pins
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/139/judo-newaza-pins

Locks
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1863/judo-kansetsu-locks

Chokes
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/184/judo-newaza-shime-chokes

and revised our list a few times

The "chopping and changing" over the years was due to, as we said, there originally being 70 throws, so 10 of each newaza

Shime chokes
- these have been set at the Kodokan as 12 for some time due to the official set of throws being 68
- interestingly, Kakato Jime and Koshi Jime are not on the list, while Do jime made it, though being banned from competition
- Guillotine from Guard is a JJ combative and ever made it to JUDO

Locks
- this was set as a list of 10, even though the leg ones are a bit obscure, and Ashi Garami is banned from Competition

Pins
- this is the messiest as the list shows, there are 17 actual pins
- Knee On Stomach being a JJ Combative, not part of Judo
- you can get round this if you see some as variations not holds in their own right, the kuzure being a variation of it's base, and the variations on kesa

It does make you wonder, if there had to be officially 69 throws, so two Shime became official making the list 12, would it not have been better to remove the banned choke and banned lock

What this does go to prove is the people "at the top" don't really know, weren't there when this was all decided, and did not train with the people who did

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As we revise the STMA "syllabus" each year as we progress, we look at our Source systems, as they were passed down to us, and the systems they were derived from

I list everything on the Forum, and update it over the years, explain why I am doing that, and make updated notes as we go

What Joker did for his Black Belt is not the same as Maverick did for his, while Iceman has been here right through and experienced all the changes and updates

Those of you who stay on to go to 2nd then 3rd Dan will experience the entire STMA system, just in a different order

In our case I was deciding in the early years how much to use from each Art and System, the KH and MK from Kempo, the KH and TCJ from Ninpo, the JJ Combatives, etc

It was later on I posted full lists from each and revised the flow of our practice

So looking at how established Arts came to formulate their systems, it is interesting to see the "higher" and "advanced" levels, what it means to the higher Dan grades from those schools, and how the "top level" might not be as solid as it might be imagined

I have addressed this both in KODOKAN JUDO and in KEMPO thread

There is debate about how these syllabus get arranged, and different stories about how the "top set" gets finalised

Everyone knows the basics but only the higher Dan grades will know the higher arrangement and rearrangements as they were decided

Only a few high grades were there at the time

And everyone of that generation wanted some seniority due to them being closer to the Soke/Founder

Next generation everyone wants to claim they were under a Shihan who was there, etc

We see this is pretty much every Art

KARATE - the applications of the advanced Kata

KEMPO - the highest techniques on the lists and the applications of the 7 and 8 forms

NINPO - the Okuden scroll, the interpretations of the GATA

JUDO - which higher waza were included, left out, revised

Keep in mind the Soke and his first Shihan were the ones who developed the school and system - they had decades of experience teaching and practising the lower levels as they were being devised into a syllabus, and less on the "advanced" stuff

JUDO

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/79/judo-nage-gokyo-full-69

KENPO

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1356/kempo-150-self-defence-series

Keep in mind our Unarmed Combat core Art is KEMPO JUJUTSU - we are not specifically going over the full system for any style of Karate, Kenpo, Judo, or Aikido - it is the complete root system we are working with, the methods passed down from the Original schools with Modern Goshin refinements, not modernised systems with a Syllabus, Kata, and a set list

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There is debate about how these syllabus get arranged, and different stories about how the "top set" gets finalised

Everyone knows the basics but only the higher Dan grades will know the higher arrangement and rearrangements as they were decided

Only a few high grades were there at the time

And everyone of that generation wanted some seniority due to them being closer to the Soke/Founder

Next generation everyone wants to claim they were under a Shihan who was there, etc

We see this is pretty much every Art

KARATE - the applications of the advanced Kata

KEMPO - the highest techniques on the lists and the applications of the 7 and 8 forms

NINPO - the Okuden scroll, the interpretations of the GATA

JUDO - which higher waza were included, left out, revised

Keep in mind the Soke and his first Shihan were the ones who developed the school and system - they had decades of experience teaching and practising the lower levels as they were being devised into a syllabus, and less on the "advanced" stuff

With KENPO the list of 156 was set up over time, and grouped as we know the six sets of 24, with the ten fundamentals on yellow

This is my understanding, as it was explained and passed down to me

The "extra two" were removed so as to make the numbers work

Intellectual Departure, still an MK is not on the lists

Aggressive Twins is seen as the kick variation of Alternating Maces

As for Spreading Branches, it is the One Man version of what became the Two Man technique REPRIMANDING THE BEARS - as what we now call "brown 2 and 3" sets did not have base and extensions, this never got to appear on the lists as a Base, though that is what it is - otherwise we would have 157 to argue over

Interestingly, henka for this technique can end with the Kubi Nage neck throw, the "lost 70th" throw from Judo - the "pure" Kempo all strike version ends with the elbow to the spine, one of the first moves banned from UFC, as well as of course the groin strike and throat strike

So we have the official 154 techniques

The four sets with extensions create 96 next techniques - so we have exactly 250

The original belt levels set up

Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, Brown, Black

This had 24 techniques for each to take the student to Black Belt

The 10 yellow belt techniques were set up after - originally the was no yellow belt, these were on Orange

Interestingly the two removed techniques could have been left on Yellow to create a set of 12, and keep the 156 - nobody knows why this was not done

The problem then became what to do for Dan Grades - most Arts have a set syllabus up to 3rd Dan, with 4th Dan and up being for other criteria

First option was to have the four extension sets be for up to 5th dan - this was discarded - nobody wanted a syllabus up to 5th dan

What was settled on was to separate Brown Belt into 3 stripes, which most other Karate do eg 3rd, 2nd and 1st kyu are all Brown belt, with a stripe

So the sixth set, originally the Black set, became Brown 2

Brown 3, Black 1, 2 and 3 were assigned the advanced extension sets, and you now had your syllabus to 3rd Dan, or Third Black as it ended up being called

Each belt level was assigned the Sets and Forms and the Kenpo syllabus became more settled

Form 6 - 3rd Black

Form 5 - 2nd Black

etc

This is when we see things get messy "at the top"

Form 4 being the Combo attack defences, and Form 5 including the takedowns, are all sharp and well defined

While Form 4 has 20 techniques in it, Form 5 only has 10 - there are a lot of sets with a TD that do not appear in F5 - it could be because some of these are the Black Belt extensions eg Thundering Hammers appears in F4 as it's "Purple" set, the "Black" extension could have been theoretically in F5 but is not - though as F5 is the Form required for 2nd Dan this may not have been the case

This being the case F4 is the longest, most complex Form, and known as the "Definitive" Form

Form 6, required for 3rd Dan, made up of techniques taken from the Sets is interesting

All four Rod sets are there, but "tacked on" at the end, as if hey were added later - it takes what looks like a 9 set Form into a 13 set

All four Rod are from the end of Brown 2, though intercut with four Advanced Kenpo, so together they make up the last eight sets

The first main part of the Form is Five Stick STORM defences and Four LANCE Knife defences

There are five Lance in Kenpo, four on Brown One, which appear in Long 6 - a fifth Lance appears on Brown Two, but not in the Form - which looks like the Form was finalised before the Brown 2, the sixth List was finished - as the "Main Bit" has five Storm sets, would it not have made sense to have all five Lance sets to make the Form ten moves not just nine - unless the fifth Lance was not ready at that time

As for the Storm STICK defences, they are drawn from the Lists

The first Storm is on Yellow
No Storm on Orange
Three on Purple
Two on Blue

None of these appear in F6

There are four Storm on Green
One appears in Form 5
Two appear in F6
The other does not

There is no Storm on Brown One, however the technique Unfurling Crane appears in F6 as Unfurling Storm, adapted as a Stick defence - which makes it both a henka and the only original, not on the lists, Storm

There are two Storm on Brown Two, both of which appear in F6

So considering Brushing already appears in F5, Unfurling is an adaption, there are three List Storm sets in F6, seven that do not appear anywhere else - that gives us a total of twelve Kenpo Storm sets - enough for a whole Form based on that

That would leave the five Lance and Four Storm - a potential Form 9 covering knife and Gun defences

An option would be to use all eleven Storm, cutting out Unfurling, add on the nine for lance and Rod and make Form 6 a 20 technique Form like F4 - if we used the available List TD from the BB ext, we could make F5 a twenty technique Form

So the "top end" of Kenpo, the last part to be systemised has a "rushed" and "unfinished" feel to it

This is only noticeable to those who have studied that far and spent a lot of time there - which is the problem the "Kenpo Professors" have as they cannot answer why it ended up this way, as they don't know, weren't there, weren't told, and can't admit to that

When the Forms for Double Stick and Double Knife were being established, due to the crossover training with Kali and Escrima, more reviews were taken

Some of the waza were developed from existing waza on the lists - eg Flashing Maces became both Flashing Storms and Flashing Lance, Five Swords and Thundering hammers both became Stick techniques, etc, some were original techniques devised just for the weapons

These were set up as Forms, the techniques not being taught as any separate list, so students learned the application as they built the Forms

Everyone did double stick first and they first learnt Five Swords, and some basic Sinawalli like Six Count

This is when the fragmentation started as not everyone learnt the whole Form and all the techniques and applications

When it came to Knife people later started to argue that there never was a Kenpo Knife Form, and that there were no real Knife techniques

The fact that the KENPO knife exists, see the thread on that, and we have pictures of Mr Parker, Gil Hibben and Elvis Presley holding the Knife addresses that point

So we have the "people who were there" presenting different sides of their version of the story

What happened was the Stick Form became Long Form Seven, now required for 4th Degree, and the Knife form became Form Eight, required for 5th degree

So anyone who has a genuine Fifth Degree in Kenpo from back then would know the stick and knife forms, and be able to break them down and teach them

At STMA we do not teach and practice the Forms, nor are we grading you separately in the source Arts, either KENPO, JUJUTSU, NINPO etc

What we do practice is the full list of 250, plus the lists for stick and knife, which complement and are trained alongside, your KALI

There are different people doing things different ways, this is our way

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Be wary of alleged high grades in Kenpo who don't know the high grade "stuff"

6th and 7th Degrees with titles like "Professor" whose stick work means they can do Sinawalli and Five Swords With The Sticks but don't know the rest of the sets, especially the original ones,

and then don't know Knife Form, and then try to tell you it never existed

The Bart and Milhouse Goldfish Bowl bit:

"Your cat ate my goldfish. Then you tried to tell me I never had a goldfish. So why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl...?"

"Kenpo never had a Knife Form"

"Then why do we have the Knife?"

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1603/gil-hibben-knives?page=1&scrollTo=7075

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Notes from some recent posts on the threads:

KEMPO

Intellectual Departure, still an MK is not on the lists

Aggressive Twins is seen as the kick variation of Alternating Maces

As for Spreading Branches, it is the One Man version of what became the Two Man technique REPRIMANDING THE BEARS - as what we now call "brown 2 and 3" sets did not have base and extensions, this never got to appear on the lists as a Base, though that is what it is - otherwise we would have 157 to argue over

Interestingly, henka for this technique can end with the Kubi Nage neck throw, the "lost 70th" throw from Judo - the "pure" Kempo all strike version ends with the elbow to the spine, one of the first moves banned from UFC, as well as of course the groin strike and throat strike

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1356/kempo-150-self-defence-series

JUDO

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/79/judo-nage-gokyo-full-69

The best explanation I was given, and the one I hold to be most probable, is that the throw was KUBI NAGE, the Neck throw

We use this throw in KEMPO, it's in SILAT, it can be seen in NINPO and JUJUTSU

So most likely this was the original 70th throw in JUDO

It's a relevant and deadly Combat move

UFC banned techniques

shirotoratiger.proboards.com/thread/1942/original-ufc-rules-why-sport

All these are covered in this technique

· Groin attacks of any kind

· Striking to the spine or the back of the head

· Striking downward using the point of the elbow

· Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea

· Throwing an opponent out off the ring or fenced area

We will cover these Kempo moves in Class and look at their relevance

Anything banned from UFC for being to brutal and a throw banned from Judo that we have in a Kempo set is worth giving attention

Sunday, 16 July 2023