I post a Chi sao note here:
shirotoratiger.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fw&action=display&thread=164
members able to do basic chi sao "rolling" (not the same as newaza rolling) by the time he gets back at XMas.
This will mean our sparring encompasses kb, grappling, MMA and chi sao.
It's hard to explain chi sao in writing so I won't bother yet. Some of you have seen
We'll be taking it up with the basic luk sao roll drill as part of our FW drilling. It will instantly improve your trapping and locking sensitivity.
Chi sao has to be handed to a student by a Sifu (me in this case) and one stage at a time. I have to constantly check your position before allowing you to advance with each other. It takes time, but it's worth it.
We take the Jun Fan approach rather than the hard fixed WC approach, and you don't need to learn Sil Lum Tao first.
something he had been told previously about the position of bon sao having to be 45 degrees.
This is a classic example of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about!
I don't mean Paul himself - he wouldn't be expected to know better as he is not a WC man let alone a Sifu - but the person who told him this was talking nonsense.
This person did not understand Sil Lum Tao or Chi Sao at all.
Let me explain.
The first thing you learn is Tan Sao. In tan sao the arm is fixed at 45 deg. You use this as a bridge and block.
You then learn fok sao - the "bridge arm".
Once you have these you roll tan to bon sao.
Bon sao is the third arm position you learn.
If your tan sao is properly developed before you start rolling
YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE BON SAO AT 45 DEG!
What Paul mentioned was a class where the student's structures collapse and the hand at bon pulls in towards the body. This is because they were not taught SLT properly - how to fix tan sao and fok sao before ever rolling to bon sao.
If tan sao and the roll are properly trained there is no need to ever think about this bon sao "compensation"!
SLT training ensures the structures are correct from day one so there is no need for later correction.
EMPTY YOUR CUP and forget what you think you know!
Do it the way I show you in class - the STMA way!
It's all about reactions and the contact reflex and there are many drills to develop this. In JF we don't just stick to WC structure and drilling. There are many other arts that have chi sao and many great drills - I have one from Mantis that we use regular, almost a variation on dan chi.
What you have practiced so far is luk sao, application of Sil Lum Tao. What comes next is Gor sao. You need to learn the next 2 forms Chum Kil and Bil Jee and apply them in combat. There's lots more to come.
You go into bon lop on the outside and don't know where to go from there. As I said, WC has places to go, but so do other arts. Once you learn hubud, the main Kali drill, that will open up your chi sao sparring in a whole new dimension, when working the outside lines.
This is because you bon his attack and don't follow on, which allows him to lop your arm. You don't have the "gor" advanced progressions and bridges yet.
You need to control what happens next, and not let him get control of the arm and decide the followup which puts you on the defensive.
The first drill I teach in boxing is the catch jab loop drill - you jab, he parries, he jabs, you parry. It's a great warmup exercise, but you don't box that way, you go for ABCs and use more complicated defs like evasion.
As I said elsewhere, chi sao has a slow progression, but that's quite deliberate, so mistakes don't occur, and we don't have the problem of Paul's colleague having to have a lesson which deals with the displacement of bon sao, something that should never occur in the first place.
Take the time to learn the basics.
And keep in mind you can use locks in chi sao - once you've been shown how.
Rolling in Wing Chun means chi sao sparring, wheres in JJ it means ground grapple sparring
Dan Chi
Single hand parallel
Vu sao
lead hand drill
bon lop
parallel lead stance drill
mantis the spring drill from Preying Mantis style
double bil
bridge with bil, bon, tan, wax
dissolve with footwork and bon, tan, wax
Roll 4 positions
tan sao to strike palm chest
bon sao to man sao throat
fok sao to IJ
fok sao to palm chest
tan sao to lo punch
bon sao to jao sao slap
block with bon sao
with tan sao
fok to pak sao
Luk São
Step forward:
Elbow strike
step out:
Bon to garn and punch
Fok to garn and punch
Tan to larn and lo palm
Fok to larn and lo palm
- lo punch
- hi punch
- pak and punch
Retreat and enter:
bil sao and kick
pak and punch
Gor Sao
1. Hi bon, pak and palm
pak da 1
- position
2. a - punch
3. b - inside tan and punch
tan da
4 - inside tan da
5 - uke bon sao - garn and punch
6 - uke pak - tan and punch
pa da 2 - double pak sao
7 - cheun sao
8 - double pak
9 - pak, lop
10 - body punch - elbow trap
